Extreme Orex Aykmar Son DM positive - Page 1

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by davisgsds on 16 June 2018 - 00:06

I own a son of Extreme Orex Aykmar x Brena od Pramena Vahu that tested positive for DM. Just a heads up for those interested in current puppies available from either of the parents.
delta von Avalik

by delta von Avalik on 16 June 2018 - 02:06

I'm very sorry to hear about that, I also had a male that was sired by Extreme Orex. Thankfully he wasn't positive, but he is a carrier for the DM gene.

by supasoniq88 on 16 June 2018 - 05:06

hi , following this thread , does this dog known to have a lot of health issues. ?
Koots

by Koots on 16 June 2018 - 20:06

Not knowing the genetic inheritance for DM, but if the sire is a carrier and an offspring is positive, then does the dam also need to be a carrier/positive?

Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 16 June 2018 - 20:06

What do you mean, "tested positive for DM" davisgsds? The dog is dead, you necropsied, and he was found to have had DM? Or you mean you did a test for the SOD1 mutation thought to be associated (albeit how associated, we aren't quite sure yet) on a healthy live dog and you got an A/A status?

Did did you request testing prior to purchase, or was the dam tested? It is widely known that the Extreme is a carrier, and it seems to be a gene he passes on reliably. I have known other dogs like this- just like some tend to produce a large number of offspring with a certain physical trait, some pass on a mutation with high incidence. I bred 2 of my females to a particular male who was a carrier- three times. Three litters, every one tested was a carrier although both females were clear. I have a friend who bred to Extreme Orex and all her pups were carriers (that she tested, she did not test every single one). Their dam was clear. My Extreme daughter is a carrier.

I appreciate you stating the names of the parents and the status for those who might consider a pup and want to know (and the majority of dogs in EU are not tested so it's often hard to know).

Please do not assume your dog will get DM. The "A" means "at risk" not "affected" as there is no definitive answer as to how many healthy, old GSDs are running around out there with A/A status. If you purchased the dog for breeding, well, that gets tricky because so few test and finding clear partners is harder. If you purchased as a pet, my advice would be to keep the knowledge in the back of your mind and do all you can to ensure a healthy lifestyle (one school of thought views it as an auto-immune condition, parts of which can be prevented or delayed) and enjoy your dog.

by davisgsds on 18 June 2018 - 13:06

Should have been more clear. The DM Gensol test came back "C" which they define as at risk affected.

by davisgsds on 18 June 2018 - 13:06

Is it common or more important ethical to sell puppies that are known carriers of DM, specifically those that tested Recessive "carrier/not affected"? The only right thing to do is inform the interested recipient of the puppy about this. I at least have the advantage of having purchased Extreme's son from someone who stands behind the health of their dogs and is replacing him, because of this he is now testing all of his dogs before placing them. In the mean time we are trying to find the 2 year old affected dog a home thats willing to work with the future out come of the DM we've only had him for 8 weeks.

by joanro on 18 June 2018 - 15:06

The test does not report " affected" but " at risk" . There is a difference. Also, there is absolutely no proof the dm DNA test predicts anything. At least 98% of wire haired fox terriers test " at risk" for dm, yet there has never been a case of dm in the breed.

Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 18 June 2018 - 15:06

Yes, as Joan said and I said above, it does NOT mean "AFFECTED." For now, until we find out what actually causes ACTUAL DM in GSDs (only diagnosed definitively via necropsy), it only means they have 2 mutations of the SOD1 gene. It does not mean they are suffering from DM. It does not mean they will ever suffer from DM. I am shocked the breeder is replacing him, honestly, though I would too, if the buyer were concerned. I'd be bummed if I bought the dog for breeding because partners would be trickier to find, but again, as Joan said, Fox Terriers are a great example. We do not have conclusive proof that the key to DM in the GSD is two SOD1 mutations. Working line GSDs all over Europe are not dropping with DM and the majority of the continent does not test.

I think 100% honesty is always best when it comes to selling anything, so yes, list SOD1 status along with health clearances more commonly done, but I think there is a responsibility to educate, also. I really think the fear-mongering about this disease is doing a disservice to the breed. We have people pulling carriers out of the gene pool, breeding mediocre and worse dogs because they are clear only, and then we have people jumping to diagnose any type spinal issue in a GSD as DM, think it's hopeless, and put the dog down. That's another one of my rant topics, which can be found many places on this forum. I think our time and money and efforts would be better spent trying to reduce the incidence of Cauda Equina in the GSD than DM, at least until we narrow down the test to actually find out what causes the expression of symptoms. Two copies of the mutation is simply not equaling disaster in enough cases to believe we've got it figured out.

I know a breeder who tested one dog with different companies and got a different result. Maybe she will comment on here.

by joanro on 18 June 2018 - 17:06

Yes, Jenn. Good to point out that lesser quality dogs are selected for breeding because of a DNA test, that at best, is only coincidental to anything involving real dm. At worst, it's a big money making scam for labs, vets and researchers.
I have never seen a dog with dm, any breed, in over six decades with dogs. Can't be all that common..
But hemangiosarcoma...now why aren't the researchers finding the cause for that disease...so common that most people who ever owned any dogs have had experience personally or know someone who had a dog die from it.

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