Those who know Czech - Page 9

Joanro. I have not twisted anything. Personally, I can not care less about what you do. However, I am only trying to mitigate the damage you are creating by posting your statements based on theorizing and arbitrary and unscientific statements of Dr Jeannie ( Jeannette) Thomason . I am just repeating what you have said which is that pups are born with perfect hips and they develop HD by environmental reasons. Please forgive me if I have misunderstood you. In that case please can you briefly explain your theory on the cause of HD? Maybe we are on the same page after all.

Really don't want to get into a pizzing contest, but just want to relate one experience. I have a close friend, former co breeder with a female who has produced (and I'm estimating) close to 60 pups. She is an AKC Champion and also ROM producer.

She had good hips from a line of good hips. He always considered hips/elbows in the pedigrees of the males he bred to.

Of these pups x-rayed (and I concede not all were) she produced 1 pup with a bad elbow (not crippling) and no bad hips.

I do think environment can play a factor, but honestly I don't think it causes shallow sockets or mal formed heads.

jmo,
Rik

edit to add, just realized my post has nothing to do with Czech, just 30 years with GSD.

I was at a show where the breeder on the 3'rd floor (from EU and much discussed on this forum) was carrying her pups up/down the stairs for hips. My thought was that if my dogs were that fragile, I need to do something different. Pups start tossing each around as soon as they can walk. Environment would have to be an injury.

JMO, but if you are a buyer, go for the background, not the environment.

JMO again,

Rik

Rik the reason shallow sockets occur is because of this.....the sockets and head of femur start out as cartilage in the new born pup, then bone replaces the cartilage as the pup grows......there is not a gene responsible for the shape the bone takes as the cartilage is replaced....

"In all mammalian embryos, the hip is laid down as a single unit from mesenchymal tissue, and it develops normally as long as the components are left in full congruity.

The hip is normal at some time in the development of the mammal, and abnormal development occurs only when stresses pull the components apart.
In the dog, the hip is normal at birth. Intrauterine stresses are not sufficient to produce incongruity of the hip.

The first time such forces are great enough is when the pup begins to take its position to nurse. ​Observations of the disease in man, dog, and a number of other mammals for many years have culminated in the conviction that the ≥≥≥≥

*** bony changes of hip dysplasia, regardless of species, occur because the soft tissues do not have sufficient strength to maintain congruity between the articular surfaces of the femoral head and the acetabulum."****

Riser is saying here that muscles, ligaments, and tendons ("soft tissues") normally keep the head of the femur properly seated in the developing socket. But if there are abnormal forces on the joint, the soft tissues might be inadequate to stabilize the joint, and malformation of the socket - hip dysplasia - will occur

joan, no way I argue or dispute you. I have too much respect for what you are doing with the breed in the U.S.

I will say that all breeds are born, nurse and grow in every imaginable environment. not all breeds are prone to HD. If some breeds are more susceptible, there has to be a genetic link regardless of if there is an HD gene or not.

Fred Lanting is not a geneticist, he is a scientist who has devoted a long life to the study of HD and GSD. He feels there is a strong link between genetics and HD/ED. just from my experience, I agree with him.

jmo,
Rik

Rik, I appreciate your opinion.
I think lanting misses the mark on many things gsd. So called scientists are claiming human beings are changing the CLIMATE, too.
Please read my post at the top of page 7.

I have not said genetics don't play a roll.
If hd is specifically genetic, what is the explanation for not eliminating it from litters where ever parent in the entire pedigree has certified healthy hips? I don't believe the ' hidden gene' retoric, because selecting for KNOW genetic abnormalities can and have been eliminated in dogs. We are talking about 60 plus years of selection based on hd certified breeding stock.

So called scientists are claiming human beings are changing the CLIMATE, too.

 

Oh god, Joan. Sorry you just pushed one of my buttons!

Here's a list of the 'so called scientists'!  I know this is OT, but as a biology major in university, and with a speciality in the environment science/ecology I couldn't just let this pass! 

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

 

  Thank you, Sun...

LOL sun off topic, but how do you explain thawing ice is revealing animals that lived here millions of years ago, so at that time we had same levels of ice on earth with no humans or scientists around.

 

Duke, you know the answer...

Climate changes happened as long as our earth exists, BUT those ups and downs took 1000s of years, so they happened, but very slowly.

What happens now is man made, temperatures are increasing during years, not during milleniums. We are killing our only home.

Susie, follow the money!
Cow farts supposedly are contributing to ' climate change/ global warming' ( in fact, the ' scientists' can't decide if it's warming or becoming a mini ice age) but cattlemen and farmers are being TAXED for cow farts!!!

Explain how ' man made global warming' are causing the polar ice caps to become larger and thicker than before? It's a hoax, Susie, they are brainwashing you!