Working to get my dog to get more serious - Page 15

There is drive capping and drive neutrality and both are necessary in PSA. The use of toys is used to obtain these forms of behavior and it has nothing to do with the dog working for and with the handler vs. the dog's satisfaction to bite something. The handler provides the toys so the dog is working for the handler.

I would add one more thing. What I am describing can be scientifically defined and described. I  through conditioning condition make a dog on command excrete adrenaline the same way as Pavlov made the dogs salivate when they heard the bell.   Or I should be also able to shut the adrenalin off and instead to discharge some of the happy hormones like endorphins, oxytocin, dopamine and who knows what else. However, I do not like to look at my dog as a science project even though I can. I like to think of us as buddies who work for each other and with each other.

Prager:

Let's look to nature.

your example with animals behaviour in nature is good but missed one small thing - selection and regulation of specimens for survival by mother nature vs. selection and regulation by humans and for the human's subjective preferences.
if dogs was selected for traits from point of nature, beneficial to them and humans only would use such temperament to benefit itselves without harming dog's development - that could be ideal.
unfortunatelly people are prone to changes in their view on dog's role due to changes in social environment, culture, life style and even due to fashionability trends.
few decades back become top fashion an intentionaly crippled, unfunctional GSD.
now on top spot actively have been pushed an hyperactive, hysterical driven choleric, never maturing type GSD.
how in this situation one can expect well balanced dogs, suitable for real work and be at same time perfect member of family?

apple:

The handler provides the toys so the dog is working for the handler.

 wrong. dog works not for handler.
same way that particular dog will work for anyone, who will provide toy/reward.

Prager, you mention pavlov, thats great, so by saying "pozor " if trained well, you trigger an expectation, not a drive, the dog will be looking for what he expects to happen after that word, the actual visual confirmation of said expectation will trigger the drive

 

next, "defuse" I know tons of dogs that will not "defuse"on short term, especially when Helper(trigger) remains in sight, here it comes to handler skills to make dog obey WHILE in drive

Finally, old czech lines/dogs, like many dogs that Novotny is breeding have better balance than most of todays sportdogs, and they will "defuse " more easy, but that is by genetics and not by magic handler skills

This gets into splitting hairs and semantics and actually not knowing exactly what is in a dog's head. If a dog will work for anyone and a handler is someone, isn't the dog working for the handler? It would be more accurate to say the dog will work for the handler and others, and some of that depends on the dog. Mistrustful dogs are less likely to work for a stranger than super social dogs. Low threshold defensive dogs might be less likely to work for others than the handler. Sport is about performance and you want to see intense drives. In other venues such as PP, the training approach and type of dog that is desired is likely to be different.

Duke,
I agree that dogs that don't have intense drives (dogs can have intense drives and be balanced) will "defuse" more easily. But I disagree it is all about genetics. In training an intensely driven dog, the dog must be trained/conditioned to possess drive neutrality, such as actually lowering the dog's prey drive to a lower level regardless of the stimulus the dog is presented with, such as the helper being in sight. That is exactly what PSA is about and there are several decoys/helpers on the field actually trying to get your dog to bite and the dog must learn not to do so. The drive is bled off by rewarding the dog with toys for not biting unless told to do so. The trainer is deconditioning the dog to the arousal a decoy would normally elicit. The drive is channeled into the toy for correct obedience, which is not to bite the decoy.

apple, Im not mentioning high drive, I mention better balance, and in your last post you perfectly describe altering expectation, which IMO is differen thing than shutting off drive on command

 

 

@ValK . While you are right you are meandering away from what I am saying. Again this post is not about "what" nature does but "How" is it done in nature. I am looking at working principles here. On How in nature dog or other animals turns his drives on and off as needed. We in training can do the same and take advantage of it.  That is what I am saying.

valK:"wrong. dog works not for handler.
same way that particular dog will work for anyone, who will provide toy/reward."

Hans: Ha that is the problem of the training and it carries tremendous baggage. It teaches the dog to work for itself as an individual where I want the dog and train the dog to work for me and with me as a part of the pack where i am leader..