4 April 20 LE K9 bite - Page 3

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by ValK on 11 April 2020 - 13:04

Baerenfangs Erbe
is that your response directed at me?
if so, then i'm curious - where i did justification?
my last sentence was a general remark about ever growing and extremely noisy army of bleeding hearts.
you know, life is a life and shit happens in it. impression from this particular video quite irritating - clearly not the family of good citizens and i'm not feel sadness or sorrow. most likely the guy will get monetary compensation for his "terrible suffering" from skin puncture by K9 and i wouldn't be surprised if after a while he will attempt repeat similar situation for same purpose.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 11 April 2020 - 14:04

Bearing in mnd that some of the info supplied around this incident says that the guy had not been in trouble for 9 years, during which time he had graduated, means I cannot be so sure in the belief that this was an obvious case of someone who was "not a family of good citizens" (although I agree his lady wasn't much help to the situation). So I'd agree with BE.

emoryg

by emoryg on 11 April 2020 - 15:04

I watched the video of the synopsis of the incident.  I will obviously see things in a different perspective.   Some may not think twice about someone who is reported to be armed and have committed a violent crime to fail to comply with officers repeated orders to get on the ground, but instead to initially back away from the officer to a position of cover.  I have no idea what is in his right hand, or his waistband, or what else is behind that fence.  Again, he was reported as being armed.  That’s why the officer is looking at him over the sight alignment of his glock.  You may not think it means anything when a suddenly compliant suspect, put his hands down and make an effort to advance towards an officer who has his weapon pointed at him, but to me and every other LEO it does mean something.  

BTW The hands went behind the back after the dog engaged.  Not after the numerous warnings to get on the ground, not after the taser.  Any chance of that guy escaping and having the chance to escalate the confrontation ended the moment that dog got involved. 

Based upon the information the officers would have received, my experience with similar incidents in the past and knowing how quickly they can escalate, in all likelihood I would have also used the dog to climate any chance of that guy being able to make a bad situation, even worse.  And trust me, it could have got a whole lot worse. 


Koots

by Koots on 11 April 2020 - 16:04

for his "terrible suffering" from skin puncture by K9

Valk - if you think a puncture is all that occurred from the bite, then I disagree.    To my untrained eye, it looks like the muscle is being torn from the bone by the strong grip and pulling of the dog.    I would guess there was significant injury to the man's leg, much more than just a 'skin puncture'.

Emory - thanks for your input, it's interesting to note what a trained LE K9 person sees in that analysis video.


by ValK on 11 April 2020 - 20:04

Koots i'm not physician and could be wrong. but from own experience know that strong full grip cause less damage than a tearing bite.
one of my hand thumb is shorter because dog's teeth slightly missed bone and just bite off peace of soft tissue. inner side of left hand near elbow even after 30+ years still have ugly scar... because bite wasn't full grip and teeth again missed bone, which could absorb and stop the force of bite. so the dog managed to tear open flesh. and that wasn't full blown fight but rather short conflict with young, not yet even 1 y.o. dogs.
another bites, i call "skin puncture" hardly left on me any notable and lasting marks.
sure, any bite is very unpleasant and painful but this sort of bite, like in video, won't do you bleed to death. that guy should consider himself very lucky that dog trained to fight sleeve. once i witnessed what sort of injuries and damage can inflict powerful adult GS dog, trained for serious fight against human. not pretty picture, believe me.

Hired Dog

by Hired Dog on 12 April 2020 - 05:04

Valk, a dog of the type you describe would have most likely never been selected into a program, or, would have had one bite in its life and be retired as a guard dog behind a fence somewhere, end of discussion.

by ValK on 12 April 2020 - 12:04

hired, if you about dog in my last sentence, you're wrong. that dog went into fight after been hit by shovel.
his handler at that moment was occupied by fight with another person and wasn't in position to control
dog's action. but never before or after the dog and his owner faced similar situation. those multiple injuries,
inflicted by dog was due to that dog been taught to do that in fight.
overall it was very good, serious, absolutely calm and selfconfident dog.

Hired Dog

by Hired Dog on 12 April 2020 - 12:04

Valk, a patrol dog is not a punishment tool, its an apprehension tool. Its not meant to inflict multiple injuries on a suspect, just stop him.
I have seen dogs get pulled out of service because they bit parts other than the arm of leg, There is a reason why the dog is trained to bite and hold, its called inflicting multiple injuries which result in lawsuits and money being paid.
The dog can be confident, calm, easy going, but, the day it bites a suspect in the balls, its done. If it ever gets out that the dog was trained to do that, I cannot even picture the fallout from that. By the way, I used balls as an example, not because the dog you mentioned actually bit the guy there.

by ValK on 12 April 2020 - 13:04

hired i not argue your but you missing the main point - those dogs wasn't for utilization on street patrol. those dogs for most of their life, after been taken back to border kennels, didn't see people others than those, who work with them. patrol territory was officially closed zone and not often someone was getting there.
to be honest, i don't know why such approach was. there weren't like people's attempt to escape from own country in mass, neither mass exodus from neighboring country in. wasn't like spies and saboteurs been send into country in mass as well. but that what it was.
official definition regarding dogs training were that border service dogs are very valuable assets and thus cannot be used as disposable. in performing the duty dog not only should detect and apprehend but during fight be able to not allow harm to be inflicted to itself. that was a guidance on how dog must act with an object of apprehension and which did summarized the training of dogs for protection.


Hired Dog

by Hired Dog on 12 April 2020 - 15:04

Valk, you are correct, I am missing the point. If those dogs job were to patrol a border, not see any people, not perform normal patrol duties, than they can do as they pleased.
They were part of a Communist regime who did not really place a very high value on human life, so, if a dog happened to injure or whatever a person, so be it.





 


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