Serious Breeders - Page 4

I DID NOT SEE ANYONE, other than BW, classify any GROUP of people, anything:
it's always the same old song and dance about PET PEOPLE, like THEY are plagued or something,
BW says; are glorified pet people that live with their dogs just like any other pet owner would. They don't care enough and don't know any better.
those words be the red flag as to why someone has dogs that live a kenneled life, for the benefit of the owner, only. i KNOW, they are just dogs anyway!
the serious breeder is the one that does not only act in their best interest, but in the best interest of the pup/dog they are selling.
AND YES, sometimes it is in the dogs best interest to be placed in a pet home, after the usefulness to a breeder has been fulfilled, ie; no more $$$ to be made off that dog, and the sole purpose of obtaining a dog is to make money.
it truly is sad that so many dogs are only viewed as property, disposable property at that.
i know several sport people that do run operating, working dog kennels. They also invite their dogs into their lives, and share their life with their dogs, and believe it or not, some of their "BITE TRAINED" dogs,
(trained being the operative word) can actually be around other people and children, without biting them.
i for one would be interested in WHAT, "knowing better" is !

  Le sigh.....

This is a good thread to show exactly what not to fall for...breeders and people that attack others and make assumptions and insinuations based on their own personal beliefs. The idea is to pull at heart strings of potential owners and demean breeders that do it differently than they do. The whole "my dogs live in my house with me" is a sales pitch to people that don't know any better that it makes zero difference to a puppy if their parents are house dogs or kennel dogs. The puppy will be whatever the owners choose. Kennel dog/house dog is not genetic...although these types of breeders will lead you to believe that it is in the same way they tried to sell that suit dog/sleeve dog is genetic. Same thing those breeders do when they sell their puppies as better for the home or "balanced" because they lack drive to do anything. The sport dogs are crazy! You'd much rather have one of my "balanced" dogs that don't do anything but play fetch once a day...

Attacking theoretical breeders for wanting to make money off their dogs is also a joke...every breeder makes money off their dogs. I don't care who you are, the thousands of dollars from a litter of puppies is useful to anyone. On top of that...those complaining about making money off the dogs, are the ones that don't actually invest any money into their dogs except for feeding them and minimal vet care and then cry about working people who are investing thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours into getting their dogs titled and proven yet we're the bad ones that are just looking to make money off our dogs...right...zero investment = all profit. Most breeders who are titling their dogs are $5000+ in the hole before the dog even has a litter.

I have ZERO issue with pet people, some people need to develop reading comprehension skills. My point about pet people and the sentence that was taken completely out of context is that the vast majority...easily 95% or more of people training their dogs in IPO...ARE PET PEOPLE. They aren't hardcore sport people who's life revolves around the sport/training/competition, the majority come out once or twice a week, work their dogs, chat with club members, and go home to live the rest of their lives.

Knowing better is being able to see through the sales pitches and the emotional/subjective jargon and looking at the hard facts that the breeder can provide. Comparing dogs 1 to 1 instead of worrying about if they live in a kennel or live in the basement of the house. Not listening to people who base their opinions on what THEY BELIEVE is the way a dog should be treated rather than actual comparable information. How can you compare the dogs? Train them, title them, show them...but it's much easier to attack and go with the emotional route on the internet than actually accomplish something and possibly have to compare your dog to another one and lose out. If you actually get on the field...people will see that the talk more than likely doesn't match the performance...and that could mean lost income.

And don't worry about my dog...yet another thing you have wrong. He's a house dog that sleeps on my bed every night. Can be around anyone and everyone without any issues. Can walk off the field after protection and interact with anyone around without even thinking about biting them. And if you think I'm the only one that classified a group of people as anything, you need to go back and read one of your friend's posts. Yet another thing to look out for...a group of people defending each other and making up lies just to defend one another no matter what the other people say and how wrong it is. Probably the worst thing for most people looking for German Shepherds or any dog is the breeder cartel that is formed online and offline where breeders will defend each other no matter what. Need to keep those connections in case there's a puppy to sell here and there and you need a recommendation. It's almost impossible for a new person to get a truly objective opinion about a breeder or a breeding because no one ever wants to step on someone else's toes or be on someone's bad side. This is exaggerated by the sheep on forums who believe they have some sort of personal relationship with a small handful of breeders who are also on the forum and feel the need to defend them and completely ignore many of their incorrect posts because it's better to stay friends with some sub-par breeder than to help a new person out.

This is exaggerated by the sheep on forums who believe they have some sort of personal relationship with a small handful of breeders who are also on the forum and feel the need to defend them and completely ignore many of their incorrect posts because it's better to stay friends with some sub-par breeder than to help a new person out.

Okay, this is an excellent example of B.W. jumping to wrong conclusions without adequate information. Why? Just to annoy people?? Why do you DO this?

Neither Hund nor I are breeders. Hund currently doesn't even HAVE a GSD! As for Kit Kat, I know her from this board, and respect her, but personal relationship?? Hah! That's about as accurate as when you accused me of being one of Carmspack's 'disciples'!  

Oh, and BTW, I often make every effort to help out new people on this board, and have even sometimes taken CRAP for it!!  

Sometimes I wonder why the hell I bother posting here!

 

Why do you assume I'm speaking about you? The question was how does someone find a serious breeder. So I answered it, especially after the moderator directed us to stay on topic. You can't get back on topic and feel the need to defend yourself for no reason at all. I didn't say "sunsilver" I said sheep. If you believe you're one of the sheep, that's your prerogative and you have your own reasons for believing that. The sheep are a huge problem within the breed because the sheep start "respecting" breeders without having that hard information to base their opinions on. Many times their "respect" is based off of those subjective things that I talked about earlier and therefore they end up leading new people down the wrong path because they "like" someone based on their own subjective criteria rather than established criteria for comparing dogs to dogs. The sheep have many posts, have their own little flock, and the flock directs people in the wrong direction. Hard to fight the flock because there is usually way too many of them and so people are guided incorrectly to lesser breeders.

How's teaching your dog to bark going?

Well I currently DO, Sunny - sort of ! I've now had Sheila for a year (it got to one year after Taz died, and I decided I couldn't cut it alone anymore ) so I went through rescue / the GSD Welfare Fund, and found this hairy, 'Alsatian' lines, 13 year old.  She's not what I normally regard as a good specimen of the GSD breed, and at her advanced age there's not much one can 'do' with her except  take her for gentle strolls ... but IF she was ever KC Registered (and no one knows if she was), she would have been registered as a GSD.

 

@ BW - no, you were not addressing the question of how to identify a 'serious' breeder, you were taking the opportunity to slag off as 'liars' others who had posted  before you, or had agreed with what they said.  And you did so in your inimitably, unnecessarily nasty, manner - as if you were incapable of writing a diplomatic and polite disagreement with what another poster said;  but that would not be as much fun, eh ?

Kit, reread aaykay's post- you are not able to see "classifying"?
BW responded to this post, nothing else.
I am with you about the "poor IPO dogs", living in a kennel, no "quality time" besides the training field, but these dogs are not the norm, although at least over here a lot of IPO dogs still live in kennels they do get a lot of exercise, socializing, condition training...- IPO fanciers tend to keep one, maybe 2 dogs only, like BW already mentioned it's about the amount of dogs, the ability and the will to care.
Out of my experience a lot of breeders do have major problems to take proper care of dogs, simply too many dogs.

A "pet dog" , neurotic, because bored to death, but allowed to sleep in the bedroom, does not have the better life...

Because of that problem "GSD light" breeders tend to breed for low/not existing drives....don't ask me what I think about this breeding practise.

Like always, it's about the owners and their will to take proper care of a dog.

The very best home for a dog?
Living with it's owner 24hours 7 days/week, trained and developed according to it's abilities, never bored, but able to rest when tired...

Perfect world

Totally agree with you Susie

I myself do not have any problem with sport people. I tried it myself but I made my dogs look bad,
I also do not have a problem with some breeders, kennels, whatever that have their dogs housed properly, are taken care of properly, etc,.
I DO NOT like those that do buy dogs strictly for breeding, keep them til they are no longer making money off them, than either sell or give them for :a small rehoming fee; so they can make room for their next money maker,
they are not spending any quality time with that dog, except through their postings of what a wonderful example of the breed she is, and anyone wanting a quality pup better grab one up;
and dogs that are kept in crates a good bit of their lives, I don t like that,
HELL, if not for a few sport breeders, who I think take excellent care of their dogs, I wouldn t have my fantastic dogs.
was I trying to tone the breed down when I bought dogs to add to mine, judging from my selections, I wouldn't think that would be even implied
when I have puppies, it is NOT a one size fits all, as long as you have the money, it's IF you know the breed,what is expected of YOU, the buyer, in terms of giving this dog what is needed to live a happy life,
again, hell.....I try to promote buyers to get involved with doing IPO, I link them right up to a biteclub and a great trainer, I will reward you for giving this dog the life I try to maintain his abilities for;
so no, I have nothing but admiration for those that do,
and BW, I don t know the first thing about you, I actually have no interest in knowing about you, so I certainly wouldn't say I belittle you, I don t even know where you live.
I've never made any puffery about me or my dogs, we are who and what we are, simple as that.
I do brag up my dogs, I am proud of what I have accomplished and you will never find me putting down another breeder, I think that's about as uncouth as it gets, now there are a couple GREEDERS that given the opportunity and the stage to do so, I will drag them thru the mud,
doing things that are so unconscionable, that is just flat out wrong, yup, thru the mud we'll go

Susie- funny you said that about neurotic dogs, this what I got for a request to buy a puppy, and this woman has a Facebook page about German Shepherds

%*&() has developed OCD.. chasing shadows and reflections.. because she's so high drive and needs a brother to occupy her brain Money is no issue for me. I have plenty of it.. just need to come see him and see if I like him;

   yeah, right away, race right on down so i can send mine to chase shadows with yours,

thanks but no thanks;

   you don't even need to be a serious breeder to send them packing