Sport to LE? Who's done this? - Page 14

@ emoryg
I agree, it's always those intangibles that mean so much. The rest is just the rest.
Thank you.

You NEVER know until it happens

you can rely on the random card or you can put an effort to increase probability of win by choosing appropriate one.

emoryg
good writing. you're gifted one.

Susie I try one more time. "Sport" and "sportism" are not the same. After you figure that out then maybe you will grasp how ridiculous your post is. Please do not address me anymore until you figure what is a sport and what is sports and you learn to use it based on it;s distinction.  

Koots:"Hans - beside playing 'spooky' bad guy and posturing, perhaps even trying to slap the dog, how else is a decoy supposed to see if the dog will bite without a sleeve (regular or hidden), suit, or muzzle? "

Hans. I like that you ask the right questions even though I have already answered this one here. I do not post this technique on the forum beacuse a/ it is not free and b/ it can not be done by reading and trainer who knows wots up must be tresent. But will talk to you if you call me. I am AlpineK9 look it up.

koots, playing spooky guy is NOT test to see if dog will bite, but caracter/nerve test

slapping the dog is response reaction, but i dont do a whole lot of slapping when testing, when you come to a point where you have to actually make contact with a dog to get him provoked, it most of time is not good enough for LE

with that one has to remember that by far, most dogs tested had previous biting experience, be it in sport, or by guy who is offering it for sale

when testing a dog you pressure a dog first without equipment,

than with equipment visible, but not on tester,

than on equipment, by then a good testing person knows of the dog is for real bite or not

than also you can put a muzzle on a dog and see if the dog will SERIOUSLY engage

all videos/testing on michellin man type hidden equipment will tell you exactly nothing, but that is why we see so many fails on the street, 

the videos hans showed some pages ago have nothing to do with previous or even current training, but all with dogs that are not suitable by genetics, trained up to a point where it would bite a suit on line and ia  a building on 30 feet distance, 

what dogs show in video is confusion/not recognizing trained situation and herefore not getting right triggers , so not suitable by genetics/basic qualities

 

this situation will keep on occurring since the demand of policedogs is still bigger than demand, and that is where breeders and modern sport comes in, again and again, problem needs fixed in the whelpingbox, not on the trainingfield, 

 

Benny has a reverse mask. that indicates that he would be from Ex Von Riedstern. Thus tough type one dog. i would be interested to see pedigree to confirm this for my own education.

Muzzle:
muzzle training is an integral part of civil training but one must not think that when the dog is hitting you with the muzzle that he will bite of the muzzle is not there. he may or he may not. Muzzle mainly increases frustration in the dog and ads to and anger. Suh dog will then attack with fewer scruples.

Life and death;
of course, we do not know how we will act not just in life or death but also just in a stressful situation until we encountered it. The point is to train the dog and oneself out of comfort zone. One of the sport and subsequent sportism training problems is that it works the dog in a comfort zone while the training is fun. However, if the dog is worked out of a comfort zone than such dog accepts stress as a normal part of the training and subsequently of any work. I employ 2 or 3 stresses at the same time. That is one of my beefs with sport and sportisms because it rarely if ever pushes the dog out of the comfort zone thus it does not prepare the dog for work out of comfort zone. Such work is teaching the dog that no matter what stress he is under the choice of the fight since the fight is the only choice and way to winning and thus reward.
I M strong opinion, the training must build the best resilience obtainable by training. What happens in real life,... will happen. But at least the training in stress is the best for a stressful situation. This involves repetition and strong conditioning. I am always bewildered when I see teams repelling from helicopters while their dog is not conditioned by hundreds of repetition to alert and attack no matter what. Basic repetitions are bred and butter. they must be ingrained into each cell of the dog's body. Alert, attack out and guard or recall. Over and over and over again and again. this must be done from, calm or even from sleep in any environment. Over and over. At the same time, the dog must be always pushed in every scenario out of his comfort zone and then win if he deals with it adequately. The dog has conditioned the striven stress. If the dog is conditioned to respond to commands automatically then we can bring the dog into any scenario and dog will have such automatic response in any generic situation. Training for specific scenarios is just that training for THAT specific scenario.That may be very usefull, but it will not help the dog who finds himself in a different scenario for which he did not train. Thus train for stress. make t5he dog to be stress induced adrenaline junkie. But if you train the dog to be resilient to stress and being conditioned to respond on command because of rigid conditioning than such dog will respond to such command in any nonspecific stressful situation. Do this ad nausem and such auto response is also for the handler. The when shit hit the fan the dog and handler them will go on autopilot. The autopilot will give us a time to do other important things consciously. But that is different book.
Rappelling from helicopters comes later.

big difference between muzzle testing and muzzle training, many dogs that are trained in muzzle will not bite for real, find the bart bellon muzzle training video for ring sport and see that a muzzle TRAINED dog can be a sport/points function, but doesnot mean the dog will engage for real

in testing you put a muzzle on the dog and directly pressure the dog without equipment, when dog switches from fighting the muzzle, to fighting and hitting the tester it shows promise

 

Duke : the videos hans showed some pages ago have nothing to do with previous or even current training, but all with dogs that are not suitable by genetics, trained up to a point where it would bite a suit on line and ia a building on 30 feet distance, what dogs show in video is confusion/not recognizing trained situation and herefore not getting right triggers , so not suitable by genetics/basic qualities"

Hans: this is one of the most incorrect conclusions based on the observations of the videos I could not even imagine in worst dream. It is really hard to stay respectful.   The dogs on the videos are confused not because of genetics( How would that worked?) but exactly because they do not see sleeve or suit. As Duke say "They are not getting right trigger" is correct. except the trigger is not poor genetics!!!! The missing trigger is  missing equipment and so he does not bite. This is all 100% training. This has nothing but absolutely NOTHING to do with genetics.  As a matter of fact I am sure these dogs same as many other dogs who fail exactly the same way have fine genetics. I am sure they were tested up to yin yang for genetics and I am sure they performed admirably even when under stress if the equipment was present. Dog like these are routinely retrained and they do bite well even though the equipment is not present. Same dogs same genetics.  Even dogs with superior genetics will often succumb like this to this type of sportism training. I have retrained many dogs with parallel type dog training and they did then just fine.- Same genetics. in former posts, I have given an example of a dog with 200+ reported apprehensions . 

 This attitude and conclusions are THE reason why so many dogs get discarded by trainers who blame genetics were they should blame their training approach.  

the poor genetics is that the NEED trigger(sleeve/suit) to bite, where the correct dogs will not

and in future I will forward all people with crappy dogs your adress, to train them into successfull policedogs