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by Bavarian Wagon on 10 March 2016 - 22:03

Nervy in my opinion is really weak nerves. “Some nerve” is slighty weak when compared to really strong nerved dogs and many times confused with low threshold. A dog with some nerve will still be stable in public, but definitely suspicious in new situations. It will be a dog that is noticing noises and new things on walks or just out and about. A dog with really strong nerves on the other hand tends to ignore the life around it and not stress (even slightly) about its surroundings. Some nerve doesn't necessarily mean that the dog will light up on everything, but it will definitely "be ready" to act even at a distance. A very strong nerved dog isn't bothered by anything and will only react when the danger is 100% real...and even then might not care enough to do so.

Cutaway…what you describe is not nervy, IMO that’s just a confused dog. It’s never happened to the dog before and it’s a completely normal behavior. Dog is probably biddable and therefore a strong correction gets him to react. Dog realized he was doing something wrong and tried to fix it. Have you done live call outs with the dog? If so, he might’ve been thinking it’s a correction for a live call out. Helper in that situation should’ve reacted quicker and gotten the dogs attention and not let him leave the blind, but since the dog went back to guarding I would assume you’ll never have that issue again. Confusion in training is all that was.

As to the propensity to come up the leash…that’s a whole different thing. If the dog has done this to you, its handler aggression and not really a nerve issue, more of a dog that’s probably testing you to see what he can get away with. Or it’s a strong dog that doesn’t like the fact that you corrected him (but I’ll lean towards the first option). A dog turning and seeing that a correction is coming from someone that’s not its handler and reacting “aggressively” is also not a sign of nerve IMO…the dog just got a pain response from a stranger, in bite work, during high state of drive and in that attitude…it has no reason not to think that it might be expected to go after that person. Again…first time you did it and you probably confused the hell out of your dog.


by beetree on 10 March 2016 - 22:03

Ibrahim, it just means that different training styles will be needed, and for what purpose. If you want to train for a bite, they will use the nervy quality, (reactiveness) to facilitate the bite. Going under and behind, to get at the man behind the equipment usually is called being "dirty".

A guard dog with rock solid nerves and good discernment will save his most serious activity for a truly threatening person, or invasion of territory if we use Susie's example. He won't be the type of dog barking at everything that moves. He'll be the dog staring at you through the fence, silently daring you to jump over. And when you do, you will be bleeding.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 10 March 2016 - 22:03

Depends what you want from a "guarding dog", Ibrahim.

Are we talking about a dog that will guard your property,
when there is NEED for it to show some threat behaviour
around i.e. your house & family; but basically live as a companion ?

Or are we talking about a dog whose human wants it to
act 'aggressively' on command, just to demonstrate that he
can get it to bite a sleeve, or a bare arm, for PPD / PSA /
Sport purposes ? Two rather different things, which constantly
get run together in discussion.

Personally I do not much like working with 'nervy' dogs / dogs

with a bit of 'nerve' (those showing a little greater reactivity, less 'chilled' - NOT showing rank cowardice !) in the limited type of 'security' (non bitesport) work I have undertaken.
As BW says, they are easier to train to "speak" and for some other
parts of Obedience; but I am like the person quoted above who "prefers their dogs more mellow".


by Bavarian Wagon on 10 March 2016 - 22:03

Nerve doesn’t have anything to do with drive or energy. I know a lot of high drive, high prey dogs that have just the right amount of nerve to allow them to quickly switch into aggression when necessary. They’re completely stable and the males especially are extremely strong dogs. When properly raised and trained these are very fun dogs to work because it barely takes any help from the helper in order to get a response from them and send them into a very high state of drive. Not much has to be done to get them to bark properly and the moment a bite/prey object is presented they switch into prey beautifully for a full/calm grip.

A talented handler, who isn’t rushing along, can easily train these dogs in obedience just like any other. A well balanced dog doesn’t take much to teach it to ignore other things and focus on the task at hand. Many will still heel beautifully and give attention when asked and if trained properly.

The people that claim their dog has too much suspicion and that’s why they can’t focus heel or perform exercises…either the dog is “too nervy” or they’re just not good trainers. A little nerve is not a bad thing, especially if the dog can work through it naturally, learn to work through it, or just ignores it when in drive.

Cutaway

by Cutaway on 10 March 2016 - 22:03

Darn it Bavarian Wagon -- Your post above describes the dog i am reffering to. He is supper fun to work with in everying we do: OB is a blast as he is constantly pushing to be correct and is always on the edge of "being correct" and going just over the edge. Sometimes he has to be corrected to bring him down just a bit so that he "locks in" with me which can result in him getting crotchitie and sounding like he is going to bite me but i am not worried about that anymore (i learned that this is his re-action but he doesnt try to bite me, others he would but not me). He is also super fun to track, as long as i have run him before hand he tracks beutifully. If i dont burn his enegry first, his first 50 or so paces are very frantic. He has been a super fun first dog!!! 


Prager

by Prager on 04 May 2016 - 05:05

nervy: nervous, unsure under even mild stress.

 Civil:   will engage man without benefit  equipment and other undesirable associations.  Think of Equipment as  uniform.

No uniform= civil. 

 sharp in Europe:  smart , quick - quickly and correctly responding. 

 sharp in US: over reactive with low tresholds. 


yogidog

by yogidog on 04 May 2016 - 07:05

What I find is people mix nervy with nervous and there is a big difference. Without a little nervy for me the dog will be way to slow to react. I'm not talking about a dog that can't be brought an where for fear of over reaction that a nervous dog .I'm talking about a dog that is weary enough to read suitions but still suitable to be brought into any area of your life . For me without a little nervy you have a robot who will only work on comand so if u don't see the threat coming the threat will b a pon u before the dog reacts. Also nervy dogs for me make the best civil dog because they are not motivated by the sleeve they are weary of the man . A nervy dog nothing will get by him .with just the right amount of nervy u will have the perfect dog but very important your dog must be invoremeantly sound once that is done your dog is afraid of nothing and is unlikely to over react to anything that goes on around him .now that's where most people go wrong they have a nervy dog don't understand how much social they need to bring them to the highest peek of their capabilities and that why a lot of people think a nervy dog is a nervous dog. Owner don't put enough ground work in at the start. Imo


by joanro on 04 May 2016 - 10:05

Excellent post, yogi.

I use the word 'edgey' where you use 'nervey'. But still, your explanation is spot on.


yogidog

by yogidog on 04 May 2016 - 11:05

Thanks joanro I work nervy dog a lot and I understand them what works how to bring the best out of them. To many dogs are classed as nervous because they are not environmently sound because people don't know how to social there dogs. Take one member here because his dog is not afraid of the noise of a bench saw he thinks the dog is social. If I was dealing with the police I would use a dog with a rock solid nerve because they don't want a dog who reacts unless comanded .now on the other hand a well social dog the is a bit nervy is better suited Imo to a family because he is more alert people want to know if there is something around there property before they are on top of you and that's what the nerve dog doese. Where the rock solid dog wait till there is the problem is right on front of him. A well environmently sound dog will do very well a pp but also work well on front of the house . My best male is a nervy gsd well social grateful with kids walk around the town without muzzle but by god is he on the ball nothing get pass him .I also have rock solid gs don't have half the awareness but very good for police. U need a little nerve in a good dog but u also need the balance of the head

by joanro on 04 May 2016 - 12:05

I agree 100%...
'Spacial awareness' is what attribute the quality of 'nothing gets past them'. It's something I seek in my dogs and want in the breeding pairs. It does keep people safe. The dog is going to investigate the slightest change, scent or sound....and act accordingly.





 


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