WUSV dogs that fail............ - Page 4

I don't believe the german shepherd is meant to be excellent at anything but should be good at everything.....

 

The sport field is no more appropriate for a dog with extreme defense drive than a police training field for a service dog. If you want to do sport, get a dog bred for sport with the drives required for that sport. But, please don't complain if the sport dogs don't meet your requirements. Just as police or military dogs are bred for their work; just as herding and service dogs are bred for their own work; the sport dog is bred for their work.

 

IPO is a very small percentage of our GSD owners in America as is dogs with extreme/excellent defense drive. To each his own and we are blessed our breed is so versatile. I am assuming you take your extreme defense drive dogs and help mankind with police or military work. Kudos to you as that is very important to mankind and I am proud of our breed for being able to perform. As I said, we have the most versatile breed on the planet!

 

And, hopefully, breeders will maintain our base of balanced dogs that others can tap into to ensure the future of our breed as a stable, versatile, balanced drived dog continues. The majority of dogs within our breed are simply pets and that is ok and we should continue to maintain that our breed be the best family dog available. Just as not all humans will grow up to be top performance competitors, so it is with dogs. But, ALL our dogs should be able to perform any task asked (maybe not perform the best but perform it) and there in lies the beauty of our breed. The importance of maintaining a foundation base of proper type meaning a stable, balanced dog moderate in drives is absolutely essential to the future success of our breed.

 

 

Smiley, can't much argue with last your post. its sounds objective just slightly abstract.
today i understand how much i was blessed from my very beginning to have original east german dogs.
they wasn't bred to be defense shy but even among them really strong/hard defense wasn't something very common.
majority of dogs i'd known was healthy, strong and agile average dogs, which well fit for family but not ones, to be used
as patrol or guard dogs.
the breeders target was to produce tough shepherds but it's not something, one can 100% achieve on the will.

in present pool to find hard shepherd even more difficult as all domestic breeders have wiped out any signs of defense traits.
i mentioned before, 12 years ago it took me over a year, to find the pup, who grown into the dog, relatively resembling of what i
used to. i think its a sad state of the breed, at least locally.

Hi guys ,

I have read most of the posts now ,

And i am wondering about some words of their own explanitions in those posts -

1. Yes - Some of those dogs who failed at WUSV , FCi WM etc. this years and the last years
how the hell could the get there ? Very often the performences were not even on club levels -
but right in some well known countries where dogsports generally is not well known and ofcourse not IPO
too! So no wonder if those dogs fail! - But still there were dogs were i was still wondering how they could get there - But it is as it is - You to have the balls to go there and show what you got!

2. Strong , good nerved dogs, good drives ,sociality .... - those dogs will show their quality in every kind of
situations of life , sports or professionel "protection work" - we still talk about protection work -
But those who say you dont have to title your dog to know its a good dog dont have an idea of IPO or whatever - Those dogs who still show their qualities from above after a long way of education in sports and are titled then its a good dog. -

3. But to say the decoy failed and made big mistakes - thats why the dog missed the bite or showed very bad performance - shame on you - THIS was a WORLD Championship !!!!! And the decoy was selected to show the weaknesses of the dog or why you think he was selected ? he did the same performance at the selection trials before - Those dogs who failed, failed cause they couldnt stand the pressure and thats all.
And it is also very unfair to blame the decoy because , did you ever trialed as a decoy - how many dogs you worked during a trial with the same performance as it was at the first dog ? 5,6, ok maybe ten - i know from what i am talking about, i am also a decoy - but also only on club levels - And that man did how many dogs ? Think about it before you blame the decoy -

Valk other than your dog do ypu know of any other specific dog that will qualify as strong defensive or any bloodline which tend to produce such?

Valk..I think we are on the same page!

I think because SV requires IPO to determine breed worthiness people think that means all german shepherds should do IPO and therefore....all dogs with IPO titles are breed worthy with strong nerve. We both know that is false!!!!!!! So, people who go on and on that only "real dogs" do IPO is kinda funny. I do think a portion of our breed should be bred to retain the strong defensive drive as strongly as I think a portion should be bred to retain service dog work. But, the majority of our dogs should be stable and balanced and not prone to any extremes. No GSD dog must ever be bred that is weak nerved. Ever.

Glock
my dog passed away about month ago at age 12+ so now i'm in search.
i wish i can help you, but seems i can't.
i found breeder in Canada with 2 dams from Greta's progeny and seems she also has good stud dogs,
so quite a chance in two litters will be at least the one pup to my preferences. but i guess the breeding
in 50% is the matching and in other 50% is a pure lottery. Siegie, my last dog, did came from no name litter
but turned out close enough to my expectations.
maybe you should check out Kreative kennel if you're in US. they expect litter from Targa.
from what i seen, she is very promising young bitch. but be prepared to fork out $3500. ridiculous but
that's what they ask for each pup. another point to pay attention, i don't remember stud dog name but
remember that he excel in tracking. that not bad thing but i never seen good track dog with great
defense at same time. so, no one know maternal or paternal traits will gonna to prevail in pups.

Smiley
i'm quite skeptical in regard of dog's sport but as i mentioned in another topic, schutzhund (now IPO) just
a tool, basic test for dog's abilities to be taken further or dismissed.
at least its sort of starting point. like a pedigree - indicator what one may expect in regard of ofsprings.
i do respect your opinion about your dogs but it's still your opinion about your dogs and cannot pretend on objectivity.

LE and military dogs are NOT bred to be such. Period! The GS has an almost 100 year legacy of being a suitable LE dog. They are not bred to be LE dogs but some have been found to be suitable for close to 100 years. There is a lot of dialogue about subjects on here with 15 minutes of knowledge or experience. The breed is an utility breed and always has been. Extremes in any direction are detrimental to the breed, imo,there is nothing wrong with a dog participating in sport, show, service, or LE, but the problems enter in when you breed FOR any of these things exclusively. And many breeders do and eventually you will breed the German Shepherd into a corner. Less than 2% of GS in LE or military come from people that BREED for LE or military dogs. There are countless kennels that breed for show, or breed for sport.....but the kennels that breed for LE is very very small because less than 25% of any breeding program is going to be able to become LE dogs.

At last, the 'voice of reason'. Thank you Gustav.

Gustav, do you know why some current and past breedingprograms for or from LE had low percentage of succes.

I will give you one, who used only KNPV TITLED males and females, the program was terminated due to low successrate

outcross dogs and titles as guidelines will give you low success allways

 

Thanks Charles for explanation make some things clear