SV going to change the rules - Page 9

Exactly, Dog1 - its no good having the potential to do anything if there is nobody in the dog's life who is willing enough or skilled enough to bring it out & realise that potential. Dogs' working abilities, like so much else, depends on which humans are in their life and what activities become available to them.

well dog1 that is what I mean by you cannot walk a street in both directions at the same time,

I personally know and seen several real good showline dogs, but who will take the time and chance to go and compete with them,

many years ago I was training in a club with several world level trainers and one of them took on a showline dog that was good enough to compete with, even started at selections for nationals when they found he had some medical issue that forced them to stop

but even if he would have been successfull do you think that would have set something in motion, showline people will allways select looks first, and sportpeople will choose workability first, dont think the split can be reversed,

This is the video I put up awhile back, actually here got the link to work. Some could not see it. As before, I have hard time figuring out how to load videos. This dog still going strong, with staged car jackings, pay downs, overall protection. What's her line, she is a German Shepherd with all the qualities "Not only I expect, but also my buyers expect", and the qualities the State Police return to me for more of.  I know, I just a peon in the dog world, but I doing more for the breed than many a breeder, and yes, that makes me proud.

I don't know why Duke won't allow that SOME people can be BOTH. Just as there are some Working Dogs which are well constructed and good looking; just as there are some Showdogs which can work; so there are people who are interested in both sides of the Breed and will bring it out in their dogs. OK they may be a minority - but that's not actually the 'fault' of EITHER 'side'.

There is a worldwide problem in that there are not enough Trainers around to train the Owners/Handlers to set them on the road to allow them to get the best for their dogs. Also, for years, there has been no appetite to do things properly, especially in the Show Line people, other than Germany where the structure for these necessities is in place in every Branch Club covering the whole Country. It is vital that the SV maintain and enforce the Standard as set out by the founders as an example to the rest of the world. The Show People just do not know how much pleasure comes from training a dog to at least a competent level. This is a pity because it brings them a new level and is something that everyone should aim for.

Training and passing the test at whatever level is very important for the future of the breed. As long as the pass mark is within the level required that is all that is needed and should not be derided by the more enthusiastic people who want to compete at the higher requirement from competition Trials where points mean prizes. Whatever the pass mark is at the end of the day a pass is still a pass.

Finally, show lines can work to high standards they just need the trainers to make the grade.

Mackenzie

hundmutter, if you read again, I say some individuals do, but it will never be like before the split, where a sable could win the show and a VA dog win the bundessieger so to speak

furthermore I think the SV can do what they want, the good  breeders will continue to breed what they did before, and the people cutting corners will continue to cut corners

 

Mckenzie, dont think what you see on videos of bitework prior to hauptzuchtschau, can be blamed on bad training only

 

@ Hundmutter...actually it IS the fault of both sides that dogs that could routinely do both ( be shown and compete) are in the minority. It's the attitudes of breeders that value winning in show first, or winning in trials first, and breed with those priorities FIRST, instead of for strong core traits in structure and temperament. Duke is right, and if a German Shepherd needs specialized training and trainers to excel at ordinary requirements for the breed, then if that doesn't tell you something isn't right, then your head is in the sand.( not you personally, but folks that refuse to accept the reality).

Let me say this. I'm a show line person. But,I love all GSD's and wouldn't have a problem owning a working line at all. I have one I'm currently fostering.
Here's the problem...
Correct. In the states, there aren't enough good helper/trainers. To be more specific, there aren't enough of the helper trainers that are interested in dealing with show line dogs. In my experience, the best trainers and helpers would rather only deal with working lines because that's what they compete with and that's the level of performance they want to showcase as THEIR training.
Yes, I do agree that not everyone can or wants to deal with a show line male like mine who demands play, interaction and training 4-5 hours a day. But for me, having it all is well worth the effort.

I don't think it has to do with trainers/helpers...the fact is, IPO is hard enough on the handler and takes a lot of time when you have a good dog that can do the sport pretty easily. A dog that doesn't need drive built and that can be easily trained to do most of the exercises, one that bites well and has the drive/nerve to deal with the pressure in the protection phase is still one that takes a lot of time and effort on the handler’s part, away from club and trainer in order to title. When the dog is less than capable, it is that much harder...that's why the SV is going away with IPO as a breeding requirement. As many people as we have here saying how easy IPO is…it proves to not be so easy with how few people are successfully doing it and titling their dogs. You really have to be dedicated to the sport/title/dog in order to get it done.

It’s the same with Universal Sieger and the effort and money it takes to make the team…I know the United States is a special case with how big the country is, but in order to qualify for the world universal sieger, you have to show at the national sieger show, and also trial at one of the national championships. This year, that meant the national in California, and the show in Georgia. Each being completely across the country from the other. Makes sense why the US only sent two dogs. Last year, we sent a full team, the trial was in Kentucky and the show was in Indiana, much more attainable for many.

Duke 1965

Mckenzie, dont think what you see on videos of bitework prior to hauptzuchtschau, can be blamed on bad training only

I did not make a comment on video's about the dogs at the Hauptzuchtschau.  As far as video's are concerned most are unreliable because some people do not really see what is going on.

Some weakness is seen in top dogs, for example a number of dogs from Zamp were not alway willing workers.  I was asked to train two son's from Zamp out of two different mothers when I lived in Spain.  Both were very weak in their drives and even to the basic obedience showed no signs of wanting to work.  I gave both dogs back to the owners with one insisting his dog could make Sch H 3 but he eventualy passed his BH at two years and 3 months.  Low scores but over the line.

Mackenzie