SV going to change the rules - Page 5

Character

The German Shepherd Dog must be well-balanced (with strong nerves) in terms of character, self-assured, absolutely natural and (except for a simulated situation) good-natured as well as attentive and willing to please. He must possess instinctive behaviour, resilience and self-assurance in order to be suitable as a companion, guard, protection, service and herding dog.

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I just don't see a self-assured, absolutely natural and good-natured dog wanting to snap at or bite at an ignorant adult or child that pets a dog without first asking permission.

Just taking a dog for a walk shouldn't be so stimulating that a dog goes into guarding or aggression.

Sitas they shouldn't be neighborhood mascots and therapy dogs either or expect them to ..u can't have a working dog with over the top prey/fight/possession/guard  drive etc and expect it to greet people with a wagging tail over at Starbucks .. this is what u guys don't get.  we are talking about working lines not showlines or some other excuse of a dog , no they shouldn't accept being cuddled or grabbed or molested by just anyone who comes along just because u think that's what a  sociable dog should be like ....and it's your job as a responsible handler not to put the dog in those situations  ..a true working line gsd should have dignity and aloofness not be a petting whore by nature and u have to further develop that by training and not over socializing the dog but neutralizing. 

THBBFT!

Shawnicus, I wouldn't go to you for a dog if you were the last breeder on Earth--regardless of the breed involved. The type of dog you consider to be 'real' is only suitable for someone living like a hermit in some remote jungle, where the only other humans the dog will ever come in contact with are ones you don't want around in the first place. Everywhere else in the world, the dog you consider to be 'correct' is nothing but a liability that's just counting down the days until it ends up being put down.

You can't accept the fact that the German Shepherd Dog was NEVER intended to be a walking chain-saw, but rather a multi-purpose breed capable of performing all the tasks we ask of them. What you call a 'real' dog would never be able to work in Search and Rescue, which is every bit as critical a job as protection work, if not more so: you can always defend yourself with a firearm, but I defy you to find a lost child in a national forest without the help of a good SAR dog.

I'm not 'into' showlines--truth be told, I'm partial to any lines that show strong tending instincts. Some of those are 'show' lines, some are 'working' lines, and some are a little of each. You ought not speak of what YOU don't know anything about.

Never said a GSD should be a "neighborhood mascot" !

The breed standard is very clear on temperament! The breed standard states "absolutely neutral" and "good-natured".

A dog should be stable, good-natured and neutral, and if someone is taking a dog out and about, the dog should be absolutely neutral if someone happens to pet it with or without permission, it shouldn't snap, bark, become a goofy lab, jump up, etc, it should just stand there absolutely neutrally.

This takes a dog that is well balanced dog (with strong nerves) that is self-assured nature and adequate training.

A dog lights-up snapping at someone because that person is too close to it, or touches it is neither absolutely neutral or good-natured.

When a dog is "stimulated" its a different story, but dogs that are stimulated just because a neutral stranger is close-by is the opposite of absolutely neutral and good-natured.

deleted, reread Hexe's post... 
 

Sometimes I think you are either thinking about Rintintin or the Terminator, but not about a "normal" GSD.
Shawni believes in the Terminator, whereas others believe in Rintintin - both fractions are wrong.

The GSD initially does have hunt drive, herding drive, territorial behavior, defense, aggression, prey drive...

That said
- a not trained/educated GSD may hunt bicycles, inline skaters, even cars - inborn behavior transferred to modern life ( hunt drive, prey drive )
- same with "children" - a ten years old in the eyes of a GSD most often is no "child" any more ( think about territorial behavior - the classical: a child climbing the fence to get back its ball )
- defense - a lot of GSDs don´t like strangers - inborn behavior out of centuries of guarding the sheep/ defending them against strangers, be them human or animal

all of this genetically shown in aggression, not in "avoiding"

It´s genetic, it´s part of this breed, GSDs are animals, they behave due to their genetic drives -
their biggest advance :
they are TRAINABLE, they are able and in the best case willing to learn ( listen to us ).

The initial GSD ( as I understand this breed ) is not very social outside of handler/close family, but able to adapt to the handler and his goals.

That said a breed that needs training

@Hexe :

Shawnicus: This is why I would never sell a pup to a pet home/ women handlers or anyone who is against dominant aggression and sharpness in a dog .

Apparently you are unaware of many accomplished women handlers.

Susie, you hit nail on head....if you are breeding away from any of the drives you mention, you are doing a disservice to the breed. Too much of anything is wrong.....but the dog must have enough drives/temperament that IF it receives good training it's capable of doing the historical jobs the dog is known for. No over the top isn't necessary, but many folks are breeding GS that aren't capable of doing historical work if trained. These dogs are no more breedworthy than the dogs that are too extreme to be trained to be an asset. I would not breed a crazy extreme aggression GS, but I also wouldn't breed to the GS doesn't doesn't possess some usable defense/fight or any kind of shyness. Both ends of spectrum are wrong, I see so many GS today that are incapable of being secure anywhere but home, with that worried look in their eyes when coming to new place....people that breed those dogs are just as bad as the people who breed the killer dog. Both folks are clueless in terms of breed traits, it's just one is easier to like/control/or is purdy so folks breed them. The majority of the breed did not lose it working capability from breeding all the killer dogs, the seeing eye folks aren't looking for killer dogs and most pet breeders can't supply dogs to them because they are to pet and not enough inner strength. We must look in mirror before we point fingers...all of us!

Nobody cares what max stephanitz wanted in a dog lol that's irrelevant to today , Iam certainly not gonna uphold a dog to his standard ... gsd might've started as a sheep dog or whatever but all through history it's been a war / police dog , these dogs were used from concentration camps to keeping people on the other side of the wall , to military police dogs and sentry dogs , I doubt the guy breeding dogs in the DDR or some Eastern Europeean country gave a damn if u though his dog was sociable or fit some stupid Disney criteria , theses dogs have been bred and intended to be aggressive and hard .. it was like that for a very long time untill not so long ago when we ruined the breed here in the states , Just like the dobes and rotts , now mostly what u have is overly soft dogs with no realness that yes you can can take to an stupid ipo club on weekends and waste time socialize and bullshit around and not have to worry about the dog biting anyone or getting into fights with other dogs or going up on a leash on you and have false assumption in what a working dog should be cause he plays a big game of tug or sniff for  hot dogs really well .

These are the same people who are judges and make the rules  , kinda like Susie and hex.