If I may ask a question - Page 4

Pedigree Database

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

Premium classified

This is a placeholder text
Group text

GK1

by GK1 on 30 April 2020 - 12:04

lol yes they will soon associate muzzles with pending attack too.


by duke1965 on 30 April 2020 - 13:04

I use it as a test only, dont really continue to work them in a muzzle, some of my clients do,

I tasted as young as 6 and 7 months old dogs in muzzle


Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 02 May 2020 - 07:05

dont shape it, dont let him get used to the muzzle, dont let him punch on a guy with a suit first, just take him from the kennel, put a muzzle on for first time and attack him, that will tell you everything

 

I've done that once with one of my dogs. What I saw was frustration and one very pissed off dog. Zero issues with going after the helper but pissed that he couldn't get to bite. If he had gotten that muzzle off, it would have been a very bad day for the helper. 


emoryg

by emoryg on 02 May 2020 - 18:05

For the dog who has never had muzzle work, acclimate him to a quality muzzle that CANNOT be removed by paw power.  A quality wire muzzle will do for testing..  Play games with it on and make him look forward to wearing it.  Start taking him to a strange location where he can play while wearing it.  Soccer or basket balls are a blast when wearing the muzzle.  Do this several days until the dog associates the area with wearing the muzzle and playing the game.  No tugs, sleeves, whips, pool noodles, suits or any other props associated with bitework. The environment cannot be poisoned by bitework as well. 

One day take him to the same place and begin the play the muzzle ball game.  Call him back to you.  He should be off lead.  If he is trained in PP he should already be BOC and have a preload position.  Have a person appear from out of nowhere and you cue the preload.  Observe the preload and if present issue the bite command on the passive person (the dog initiates the encounter).  If you do not use a preload position, but use a sequence to initiate the confrontation, do it now.  As soon as the dog loads, issue the bite command. 

The person only becomes active after the dog commits to the bite.  The person should punish the dog to see the reactions, but this is not muzzle fighting, so call the dog back to the heel position as soon as he shows his head and heart are in it.

Ideally, the dog initiates the confrontation and his desire to bite overrides his desire to get the muzzle off.   There is no guarantee a dog will bite unless he has actually experience of putting teeth on skin, but this is a fair indicator of what may happen.  Even then, the first time teeth sink into skin, the startle may immediately kill his drive.  He may also fall out of drive the first time he gets his clocked cleaned or begins to take hard body shots.  This is where the desire to dominate becomes a blessing.  This dog will seek to maintain his position as the aggressor and dominate his opponent. 

 


by duke1965 on 03 May 2020 - 02:05

emoryg, to me, what you describe is make belief, shape and cuddle a dog into wearing a muzzle, same what we can see on the bart belon video teaching a dog to punch with a muzzle, again trained/shaped behaviour and NOT natural quality of the dog, you correctly write, there is NO guarantee the dog will bite, same as a dog that bites nice on suit and sleeve, NO guarantee he will bite for real

I test a dog with no previous training or experience with muzzle, NO bitework done prior to muzzle test, put the muzzle on and in the next seconds have someone put pressure on the dog without sleeve or suit on, the reaction of the dog will tell you all about the dog,if the response is good, guaranteed the dog will bite for real, and you dont need a command to tell him go bite, a good dog will want to bite and you teach him no/stay, a good PP dog is the same, you dont need to train him to bite, you need to train control

 

 


by duke1965 on 03 May 2020 - 02:05



emoryg

by emoryg on 03 May 2020 - 09:05

Duke, needing only a few seconds on a front-end test to guarantee a dog will bite for real is beyond my capabilities.  With that said, I would hope that any dog of sound mind and body who was muzzled for the first time and pressured by an assailant would have a favorable response and attempt to defend himself through aggressive actions.   

The method I mentioned provided me a fair assessment for trained dogs with no muzzle work and was geared towards helping someone like Apple with an alternative method of evaluation.  I may have mudded the water with my previous instructions, as my intentions were to explain how the muzzle and the location of testing should be neutralized to avoid cueing the dog to the testing that would soon unfold.  This is why time is spent conditioning the muzzle to playing with the ball in that area.  After a few trips. take the dog to the location, put the muzzle on and the dog anticipates play time with the toy.  As stated in my earlier post, this is for a dog who has no muzzle work experience.  The muzzle can and often does trigger an exaggerated defensive response from a dog when they are first exposed to it.  It can and will, quickly become a prop just like the training field, the blind, the helper, the sleeve, suit, etc.

I prefer to see the dog aggress to the person and initiate the confrontation instead of the dog being pressured.  That’s just my own preference.

Again, the actual results would sometimes paint a different picture from testing, that’s why I said it was a fair assessment.  I am reluctant to guarantee any dog will bite for real unless I have first hand knowledge of the actual encounters.  Even then, performance may vary from one encounter to the next.  I policed with a four-legged partner who was hesitant to load on a 14 year old carjacker with a firearm within reach.  Fortunately the kid complied and was taken into custody by the backup officer.  Even though the dog did load, because of that initial hesitation I have no idea if he would engage the child and would he display the same high level of dominance he had on many bites before.  This dog was a committed street biter. I have shown some of his pictures and commendations he received on the forum.  Intersting enough, he loved playing the bite and return game with the bitesuit, that was unless a female donned the equipment.  He then appeared to only be going through the motions.  Instinctive actions are a two way street.






 


Contact information  Disclaimer  Privacy Statement  Copyright Information  Terms of Service  Cookie policy  ↑ Back to top